Please understand that I DO NOT ENDORSE anything about the All Saints Church, the church in this article. In fact, their views are far from what I consider to be orthodox on many issues. Secondly, I am not a big fan of churches running guns ablazing into political issues at all times. Though, there is certainly a time and place for it. When that time comes, I am quick to let my voice be heard. Maybe I’ll get into what I consider those times to be at some other time.
But, for now, I’ll say I a have major problem with the government dictating to the church what can be said from its pulpits. What is happening right now with this situation should send chills down the back of every Christian who is also a US citizen.
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Yep, the “All Saints Church”–they have quite a story, I’m sure.
Some of their “causes” trouble me as well…but then they should trouble me and the rest of American Christianity.
As far as the government, I do believe that followers of Christ should vote their consciences, let their elected representatives know how they feel about any given issue, and support those causes about which they have strong convictions.
The “Establishment” clause that everyone seems to quote these days prevents the government from “establishing a religion” but it also ensures that government cannot prevent the “free exercise thereof”–a section which many folks want to forget is also in the Constitution.
Should the Church have influence on the government? Yes.
What kind of influence? That remains to be answered by folk who are infinitely smarter than myself.
Who determines when religious speech becomes political? When does it become a violation of IRS codes to condemn political rulings like Roe v. Wade from the pulpit?
I agree with your perspective on ASC, Phil. Personally, I would never recommend All Saints Church to any one. BUT, an assault on religious speech that is not in violation of the First Amendment is an assault on every church and an assault on the US Constitution as well.
I’m posting this comment in hopes of helping get the right action out of the liberal community. I’ve posted this on Americablog based on some of the postings there:
I’m a member of All Saints Church in Pasadena. I resent the calls by those on the left who would lump our progressive faith community with the “Christian” community as defined by the media.
It is my faith that served as the underlying foundation for my wife’s and my work for Howard Dean. We are called to embody Christ’s life. Christ’s life was always about inclusive love of one another. Taking care of the least of these. Trying to co-create the kingdom of heaven here and now (”thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven”).
Our faith community has the radical notion that there are many ways to get to God and we don’t claim to have a lock on what that is. It is why, before communion, these words are spoken - “Wherever you are on your journey of faith, you are welcome here.” An invitation to ALL to participate in the central liturgy of our worship service. (look up George Regas’ sermon delivered at the Riverside Church in NYC in which he talks about this most clearly).
Too often people on the left dismiss people of faith as being part of the problem. I’m tired of this kind of ignorance. It is people like us whom you should be relying on more and encouraging to be involved in the political process. I suggest going to these sites to see just how important we people of faith will be if the Left is ever going to succeed in its work - http://www.sojo.net/ and http://www.tikkun.org/ or even to here http://www.allsaints-pas.org/all_saints_church.htm to read past sermons from our church.
Church and politics do mix. Past rectors at All Saints have repeated this phrase time and time again, “to hold a bible in one hand and a newspaper in the other”. Our faith calls us into the world, into our communities to make it and them better places to live for all.
Salvation is not some other worldly place after we are dead - it is right here and now, each of us realizing our fullest human potential to heal the world and each other in whatever ways our talents and passions call us to. You can see this in the Lord’s Prayer in these words “thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven”.
Our community, ideally, is one which shows up on Sunday, is inspired, and goes out into the world the other 6 days seeking in our own unique ways to make this a better place to be.
Don’t disregard us and don’t disrespect us by not taking a strong stand against this anti-democratic action by the IRS. We are among your strongest most capable organizers and activists.
Regards,
Patrick Briggs,
Pasadena, CA
You might want to consider reading the post that you are responding to before you start blasting away at the Christian liberals here that are failing to support your free speech.
I say that especially since I am no where near such a label.
Also, you said:
Our faith community has the radical notion that there are many ways to get to God and we don’t claim to have a lock on what that is.
That is precisely why I would NEVER recommed anyone I loved to go to your church. If you don’t have a lock on what the answer is, you are wasting your time.
However, I do support your right to the free exercise of religion. I oppose the goverment’s supposed right to levy fines or revoke your non-profit status because you are preaching what is deemed to be political speech.
I am praying that you win this battle for the sake of the Gospel. And for that same Gospel, I pray that you would receive the revelation of the same Christ you represent…the same one that said:
Jesus told him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. John 14:6
God’s best to you.
Travis Johnson
Homestead, FL
Amen, Travis! Amen!
I have been to Riverside Church in NYC….beautiful facility–and their pastor, Dr James Forbes Jr was raised in the Church of God in Christ–the same denomination that ordained him many years ago.
But the same Jesus who calls us to the “least of these” also said “be holy”–and how can we be “holy” if we refuse to see the entire ministry of the Godhead: Father, Son, and Spirit.
Christ is our only hope. Not just our main one.
Our only one.